Discussion question responses - Environment

From Melbourne - Anglesea informal discuussion group


1. WHAT ARE THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF INTERNATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES?
1.Strength. That there are any policies at all.
2. Weaknesses. Not many people know of them or are interested in them.
3. The powers that be do not yet find them in their interests
4. No sanctions that can enforce them.


2. HOW CAN NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS ENSURE THAT INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS ARE POLICED/ ENFORCED?
1. Nations with environmental interests must join together against the imposition of international global trade agreements that threaten nations and peoples with lawsuits and penalties if a single nation tries to protect its environment.
2. The people must vote to support their national governments in these issues. See below on political hurdles.


2. HOW ELSE COULD GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES BE ADDRESSED?
1.The people themselves must realise their own part in it as 'consumers'
- in what they buy and the waste in their lifestyle. One person can do little it seems but one person x 18 million = an awful lot of environmental destruction.
See discussion paper on The Size of Your Footprint.


HOW CAN AUSTRALIA OVERCOME THE POLITICAL HURDLES IN IMPLEMENTING ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY?
1. Agreement with other nations to put up government resistance to international robber barony.
2. Electoral reform. The people must be able to vote to support their national governments in these issues.
a. To be able to do this will require electoral reform - that is, in each seat, each of the major parties must be able to put up TWO candidates for the cost of one, so that voters can choose between them - and have more chance of not having to vote in Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who obey the corporate demands. Supporters of both parties can choose the candidate who more closely represents their interests instead of having no real choice at all, and instead of being stuck with only candidates that are selected for them by other interests.
b. The issue of COST in elections. It must be made possible for all the people to be informed about all the issues on television without costing the earth to 'advertise'. The commercial channels must have a responsibility to include all sides' policies and agenda as part of the news, that is not charged to parties or government.


WHAT DO YOU FEEL ARE THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF ECONOMIC INSTRUMENTS, SUCH AS TRADABLE POLLUTION RIGHTS, IN SOLVING ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS?
Tradable pollution rights are abominable and prevent solutions.


WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION AND POLICY WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
1. Some recommendations for international co-operation are already made above.
2. Encouraging sustainable industries and research into them, including know-how that can be exported.
3. Taxes on waste and pollution.
4. Heavy charges for all forest resources taken from public land, instead of the present peanuts.
5. Introduction of 'FUTURE COST' assessments into statistics, advertisements and company reports, etc. That is, how much of the cost of what is being made or consumed is going to be borne by the future. Although Future Cost can only be estimates, it can be thought-provoking estimates. eg. The 'future-cost' of 4-wheel-drive touring that ruts, gullies and erodes the countryside and spreads plant diseases.
6. Encouraging documentaries about what is happening to our land, and of enterprises that are restoring it.
7. Catching cane-toads as a community-order for delinquents.
8. Legislation that gives social welfare a precautionary priority over the legislation that 'forces' companies to maximise shareholders' profits as the first priority. 'First priority except when . . ."


CAN YOU THINK OF AN EXAMPLE WHERE THE OBJECTIVES OF ECOLOGICAL SUSTAINABILITY HAVE BEEN MET THROUGH MARKET MEANS?
Sweden, Denmark and Holland may have achieved this. But the whole advertising industry needs to be rejigged to make this more possible in Australia.

Some water companies in Victoria are making gestures to try to appear respectable - eg. people should not leave the tap running when they clean their teeth. ! On the other hand, suggestions put to water companies that would make more impact are ignored.


HAS THE MARKET APPROACH IN THE ELECTRICITY INDUSTRY LED TO ANY POSITIVE ECONOMIC OR SOCIAL AFFECT?
No. More paper has been wasted, and probably humanpower too. Maintenance has not been a priority, nor has happy workers.


CAN CHANGES TO THE TAXATION SYSTEM, THAT ARE AIMED AT ACHIEVING SUSTAINABILITY, BE COMPATIBLE WITH SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EQUITY?
We cant see how they could be anything but compatible, since they should reduce the power of the wealthy to destroy out of greed.


HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HELP DEVELOP PEOPLEÍS UNDERSTANDING OF THE NEED FOR RADICAL CHANGE IN OUR APPROACH TO THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT?
Suppose we said no!!


WHAT EXAMPLES HAVE YOU SEEN IN YOUR WORKPLACE OR ORGANISATION OF WORKERS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS COMING TOGETHER?
In schools, children have been starting to make worm-farms and gardens, and a bit of recycling - but they still fill the rubbish bins each day with the day's schoolwork etc..


HOW CAN THE POLITICAL OBSTACLES THAT STAND BETWEEN WORKERS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS BE RECONCILED AND OVERCOME?


More alternative constructive jobs for workers currently in industries that are destroying natural resources and the environment.

A development of unions to consider in their mandate the welfare of the workers as consumers too, so that what they produce is also a concern for unions.


HOW CAN BOTH FULL EMPLOYMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCE CONSERVATION BE GUARANTEED?
See Jobs that are Needed, and Jobs for the Future -
http://www.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/jobsned.html
http://www.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/jobsfut.htm

If all the jobs that need to be done were being done there would be no unemployment. The question is, how to pay for the jobs that are needed instead of as at present, paying for the jobs that make company profits regardless.


WHAT KIND OF ËTRADE OFFSÍ AND COMPROMISES WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO ALLOW FOR CO-OPERATION TO OCCUR FURTHER DOWN THE TRACK?
Whatever will start co-operation now, and does not bind the future to environmental exploitation of any sort.


HOW CAN WE INCORPORATE ËLESSONSÍ FROM INDIGENOUS PEOPLES INTO OUR WAYS OF MANAGING AND PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT?
1. Co-operation rather than competition. We could have TV SURVIVOR programs in which the winners are those who co-operate most - as they would need to co-operate in real life in order to survive. Witness all the people in desperate circumstances who have fought instead - and all died or severely impoverished their countries.
2. Population limitation. The indigenous people had some pretty rough ways to keep their populations sustainable, (including infanticide, abandonment of the ill, tribal wars, etc.) and even then tribes could be wiped out by environmental famines and disasters - but they did not have local populations so big that they destroyed their own resources (except insofar as they did this deliberately or accidentally by fire)
3. Protecting breeding grounds. The totem system among other measures helped ensure that animals and fish had some 'safe' areas for breeding grounds and so were not wiped out.

At present in Northern Australia indigenous peoples are sometimes/often not keeping to these old strategies, and helping to wipe out turtles and other species. Their growth in population also means that they make greater demands on the earth in arid, coastal and semi-arid areas. As do we.


WHAT OTHER EXAMPLES DO YOU KNOW OF WHERE THE INDIGENOUS MOVEMENT AND THE ENVIRONMENT MOVEMENT HAVE WORKED TOGETHER? WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THIS?
Indigenous is a hard word to spell and I wish we could go back to 'koori'.